Any Fellow Atheist ADHDer's?


#1

So, I’ve seen a few of these threads pop up and it’s nice to have a community! Since we are a pretty small minority in general I wonder how many of us there are?


#2

Yup Atheist here, grew up jewish, but now an atheist.


#3

Have been questioning religion since elementary school, atheist ever since.


#4

Question for atheists: How did you rule out agnosticism?


#5

Totally.

I used to be somewhat religious as a teenager but, now I think about it, I guess my ADHD saved me - I never remembered to go to church and the three or so times I had to, I just got bored. Then I just stopped thinking about religion until people started bringing it up a lot in the early 2000s.

People got really pushy about it for a while and kept insisting I can’t be neutral on that most important question. So I met them half-way. I took a non-neutral position but I still think there’s more important stuff.

I know that a lot of people, including some of the very wonderful people in this forum, take a lot of strength from faith, and I wouldn’t want to take that away. Seriously, whatever makes a good person strong is okay with me, to that extent. For me, though, it doesn’t work at all.

Short version: Bayesian logic, mostly, with some Occam’s razor and a hint of sociological hubris because I can explain better how we made God than the other way around.

Long answer...

I used to be agnostic because you can’t answer the question of the existence of God either way, there being no evidence and all. The way I see it, if there’s a God, he or she exists outside our reality (this concludes from her having made that and also there being no evidence pointing her way, so she’s either not here or very insignificant) and is by definition undetectable within any universe we can perceive or even theorize. We can’t make any definite claims about what we can’t measure or derive from theories logically extrapolating from reality, so agnosticism is the only intellectually honest conclusion, right?

Yeah, I thought so, too. But this assumes there’s any point in asking the question in the first place. That there is equal probability to both options. This is not true. People don’t keep bringing up the question because the evidence could point either way or it explains things better. (That may have been how it started but we’re past that now. This is where Occam comes in. We can explain a lot now without resorting to the completely unproven theory that God Did It.) In fact, the God debate isn’t a question without an answer, it’s an answer without a question, or at least a meaningful one. Replace God with Donald Duck or Bertrand Russell’s celestial teapot, and the question doesn’t change. Neither does the answer. Because the question is inconsequential. It’s about nothing. The only reason we’re still talking about it at all is because people keep bringing it up (for their own very transparent reasons), not because it adds anything to our understanding of the world.

Bayesian logic is all about taking into account how probable something is to begin with. The probability of God’s existence isn’t 50/50, as it seems when you’re asking it out of context. In fact, it’s close to zero and when you take into account that God, if she exists, does so outside of our reality, it’s actually zero because we can’t talk about that in a meaningful way either. I used to think that answering the question with a definite answer was intellectually dishonest. But it isn’t. Asking the question is.

The religious among my friends agree that when it comes to explaining stuff, it’s better to go with science. They only resort to God when it comes to making sense of stuff. As an ethical backbone. They seem to have a real need to feel that there’s More. I don’t. I’m perfectly content with the reality we have (and the ones we make up, as long as we all agree they’re fiction) and I never felt the need to imagine an afterlife either. (Actually, I think it’s a relief to think it’ll be over when it’s over. Fills me with peace, it does.) But it’s okay, if they feel a metaphysical gap in the world, to fill it with something. As long as they don’t go claiming that there would be no ethics without religion because that’s a whole other topic to rant on.


#6

I’ll probably read that again later, there’s a lot to digest! :slight_smile:

I’m glad to see that you’ve given it lots of thought & analysis. I’m not a huge fan of atheists or religious people who follow without giving it much thought. I also find it annoying when atheists use evidence against the Bible, to prove that no gods exist. Succeeding in disproving elements of Christianity does not prove there are no gods - as Christianity is focused around one god.


#7

Yeah, that can’t work. Evidence proves that whatever it is evidence of exists, but it can’t prove the nonexistence of something else. In fact, it’s logically impossible to prove the nonexistence of anything*.

This is also why it’s complete nonsense to take the lack of proof against something as evidence of its existence - because if nothing can be proven nonexistent, this lack of proof is completely meaningless. That’s basically what Russell tried to illustrate with the celestial teapot argument.

*) Unless the laws of physics or atmospheric conditions or something somehow make it positively impossible for the thing to exist, and even then we’d have to take into account that our knowledge of those may be incomplete or that the thing may be magical – which is totally a cop-out, but you can’t disprove it.


#8

I’m an atheist in fact when I was a kid religion would annoy me because I just saw how crammed down your throat it was so it felt so forced. I even thought people who believed it were stupid but I don’t think that so much now. You are intitled to believe what you want and there is no firm evidence to completely disprove religion it is possible just not very likely so I can’t really shoot you down and call you dumb for something you believe in that wouldn’t be fair. Even if I disagree with it.


#9

I identify as agnostic, but highly doubt the existence of a sentient “god,” so I’m not functionally too different from an atheist. I don’t rule out the idea of a higher power. In fact, the more I learn about the world, the more I get the feeling that the higher power is just quantum mechanics. Which is cool as balls and also extremely humbling.


#10

I identify as an agnostic, too. Atheism still requires me to believe in something that cannot be proven or disproven and while I am leaning more towards atheism than any religion there just isn’t any conclusive evidence either way, so I consider agnosticism the most logical choice.


#11

I usually identify as an atheist, although in some ways I’m more agnostic. It’s not that I don’t believe there are forces or entities in the universe (multiverse?) that are godlike in the way we would perceive them, in fact I generally believe (and hope) the universe is much weirder than we can perceive and measure, and I’m open to accepting the existence of gods. I definitely don’t disparage people whose faith gives them comfort and inspires them to be good to themselves and others. I live by the Kurt Vonnegut quote “Live by the [harmless untruths] that make you brave and kind and healthy and happy." And in a certain sense, I believe everything we imagine exists in some form or another in the infinite multiverse.

But I call myself an atheist because I don’t have any need for a god or gods in my life. Not in the sense of worship or giving me ethics to live by.


#12

Well, technically you cannot rule it out 100% because you can never prove a non-existence of anything. BUt with all reasonable doubt Occam’s razor applies, so if all the claims were true, in times where everybody has a cell phone with an HD camera, motion detectors, and many other sensors, we would have so much hard evidence. And all supposed miracles can be explained differently. Just gotta comprehend Occam’s razor. It’s a no-brainer. Just accept it. I was 10 when I figured it out for myself.


#13

So, I don’t know what word i should use to designate classification of myself in regards to religion, atheism, agnosticism (sp?) Im not sure i even know the real definition of the words. I don’t like to classify things anyhow. However, being born and raised in the south provided no route other than Christianity. And since I was born I was taught some things that pushed me toward religion. I even started writing a song that I never finished with some words that kinda explain this:

So if I can act like Jesus, maybe then I’ll get a hug?
If I can make the whole world happy, then they’ll have to show me love?
And mama don’t love daddy, so he’s nowhere to be found.
And I can see your life is better without me around
Mama’s always happy
'till I come around
Mama don’t love daddy
so hes nowhere to be found
If I can act like Jesus,
I might get a hug.
Ain’t nobody happy
I never felt no love
Am I really alive?
Life don’t feel like mine
We aint nothin but some animals
And I’m a different kind
People say they talk to god
Everybody’s blind
I see where I’m going
They say I lost my mind
Keep it to yourself
What you’re thinking I caint pay attention
Who is it you’re trying to be?
Thinking to myself,
“What you saying?” I ain’t really worried
You ain’t nobody to me

Anyway, so I tried my best to be the best Christian ever. I went to extremes. I joined a church, I studied the bible, I amassed a library of books, translation manuals, etc. I taught Sunday school, I donated all my money, I talked out loud to the god that I was trying to please. I tried my hardest to brainwash myself into believing everything in the bible, word for word, I even tried a few times to preach at a few revivals, lol. But during all my miserable yearning, I discovered that I just couldn’t convince myself of things that didn’t make sense. And that process actually took about 2 years. And after I decided to be true to my own logic, I spent several years trying to be an amature activist against ignorance and following blind leaders. And after that I finally was able to wrap my mind around an understanding that allowed me to have peace… And I’m currently still in this frame of mind. I look at infinity… the universe with no boundaries. Space-time with no beginning or end. Subatomic particles that aren’t even matter, just energy. And I look at life… when did it begin? What is it? What forces allowed consciousness? Is the earth alive? The sun? The milky way? The entire universe? Then I look at my own existence… If I am born and then die, did I ever really have life at all, since “life” seems to be as eternal as space-time? So my conclusion was that im just experiencing something amazing, from a unique point of view. And that eventually “life” will evolve into a much higher expression of itself, or not. I just couldn’t let go of the fear of death. Until I realized that fear is one of the most primitive survival instincts. So I tried to separate my logic from instinctual, animalistic, reflexes. And thats what I’m working on right now… because I understand that, even though this existence is impossible if you sit down and do the math, and even if it’s all a dream, or if we’re all one consciousness, or if I die and suddenly I’m surrounded by aliens at a house party filled with strange smoke and everyone is asking me did I feel it… I realize that my understanding has exceeded the necessary limits of my species, and if I want to “feel” happy, then I need to just fulfill my psychological needs… And so now I like to believe I’m living my life as a sacrifice for the evolution of humanity, but it sounds much better when I keep that part to myself, lol.

But as far as religion, no, I don’t like it because it keeps people from seeing with their own eyes. It’s kinda like parents telling their child he shouldn’t learn to see things from his own perspective and make this life his own. It’s kinda like people being cowardly and shaming others for being brave. And sometimes I really feel like I live in a world where everyone except me was born blind, and, when I try to describe what I see with my eyes, all the blind people get insulted and think im crazy and shun me away. I wrote another unfinished song that kinda explains this:

Silently the mountain
Echoes in the wind
Confusion from the fountain…
How did you get in?

Diamonds for the water
Rainbows for the stars
Waterfalls for prison walls
And I’m the only heart

Lonely is the Oracle
Reflection in his eyes
Lonely is the Oracle
Exile for the wise

Ignorance and malice
Hypnotizing face
Discovery and answers
Such a tragic waste

Popular consensus
Delegate the shame
Never irresponsible
The blind assign the blame

Reading your intentions
Innocence for trade
Manipulating reasons
Anticipate your fate

Existing as a burden
Punishment for pride
Question animosity
Never feel alive

Lonely is the Oracle
Reflection in his eyes
Lonely is the Oracle
Exile for the wise

Different book same page
Primitive and civilized

However, my ex wife never really felt the same curiosity as me, and she seemed content to just believe whatever everyone else believed. And then she was diagnosed with stage 4 cancer and I quickly decided it was better to leave some people to their own understanding if it truly gave them peace. And, after she received her diagnosis, I really began to lose my mind. I guess I went through stages of greaving or something, but eventually I turned so angry and hurtful and psychotic until she divorced me. And this was all during her 1st year of treatment. And now I think she’s in remission, but I don’t even know, she won’t even let the kids talk to me, she went balls flapping out the window hard in the paint to get away from me, and that was in 2014, and only since about the last year or two have I really been able to feel like I have some kind of understanding of how miserable she must have been in order to do what she did. And now, I’ve finally learned to let go of any idea that life isn’t fair… instead I choose to see it from a different view…

I like to believe that, if life is eternal, if “god” is love, if “god” is life, if “god” is the beginning and the end, if “god” is this one thing that the math points to, and if all this physical space-time and our existence is just an expression of one facet of this “god”, then, if I hope to escape this prison and break free from the limitations of space-time and awaken again in my full consciousness as the singularity, then every experience I’ve ever had must be necessary. And another song I started comes to mind (although it is not fluid yet, it did come with music, so it will eventually be finished… any songs I write that music comes with the words, they eventually get finished) but here’s the notes for it anyways:

I live alone in the temple with shame
I’m alone in the temple of shame
Inside, I don’t need a name
Inside I don’t have a name
I don’t like the sound of my name
When spoken in the temple of shame

I am the temple of shame
Alone in the temple of shame
Hiding from the sound of my name
Alone in the temple of shame
Praying from the temple of shame
Praying in the temple of shame

No longer will I pray from the temple of shame
I’m learning my name
Alone in the temple of shame
They gave me a name

I’m a sacrifice
I’m bleeding
Nailed to the wall in the temple of shame
Balance and attone for sins of old
My innocence is gold on the alter of shame
Alone with shame

I stand alone with shame
Alone in the temple of shame
I stand alone in the temple of shame
Crucified on the walls in the temple of shame
Who am I with a borrowed name?
I serve the demons in the halls of the temple of shame

Hiding from the sound of my name
Pulsing from the walls in the temple of shame

And now my ADHD is really kicking in and I feel compelled to paste another song, but this one I left alone after it kept changing tempo and chord progression and rhythm, lol. So, yeah i write a lot of songs. Its like the only way i can feel a connection with others… its like because have a serious inability to connect with others the way they all seem to connect with each other through seemingly simple expression, my mind creates this artform as a way to express whats inside. Anyways, here it is: its called “Burn Baby”

Cold as stone, my mama’s soul
Callous from abuse untold
She prayed for me to burn in hell!
Demons that I know so well!!!

Genius was my daddy’s mind
A product of the revolution
Man of mercy trapped in time
A generation’s evolution!

I escaped with rock and roll
Spirits showed me where to go
Drugs and violent sins for gold
All my demons have control!!!

A past I couldn’t leave behind
Beneath the surface!
…See it in my eyes!

My mama let her baby burn
A ritual no eyes could see
I’m a different breed of man
And they don’t understand me

Naw
They don’t understand me.
Naw
They don’t understand me
Naw
They don’t understand me
Naw
…they don’t understand me…

Haunted by the ghosts I’ve made
Souls who trusted me to save
In my grave see burning flames
Alive or dead, it’s all the same

Cause it’s hell when I wake up
It’s hell while I sleep
Though I repent, I cain’t atone
Cause they don’t understand me

Restless search, my comfort zone
Fear and blood disguised by dirt
How I ended up alone
It’s memories that make me hurt

I hate the city and its cold brutality,
It’s a feeding frenzy, a mob mentality,
Lions, and tigers, and sharks, and piranhas
Ain’t no different, that’s why I ain’t trying to
Fuck with yall animals, blind to your nature
Pushed to my limit, now inside I hate you
So congratulations, you got my attention
My prayer conversations these places get mentioned.
I call for catastrophe, welcome the mayhem
Study the machine and plug myself in
Where too many men, too many people, cause too many problems, and love is spread thin

And y’all don’t understand me, so you make assumptions
Just like y’all don’t understand god, you make assumptions
Just like worms caint understand life beyond the sod,
Yall caint understand me because I’m closer to god
Live my life like a lightning rod
Taking in the vision, I try to make provision
But each decision brings new waves of pain
My sacrifice turns my demons into saints

I don’t bow myself before any god.
cause when the game is over, ill sit on the throne
And I won’t be alone, and my kids will be home
I’m arrogant, I’m pompous, I think I’m better than you
These are the things you think about me when the waves of knowledge come through

Okay, I’ll go to sleep now.


#14

Never apologize for walls of text, not in this forum. We’re all free to gloss over them. Also, all the song lyrics (which you seem to be pretty good at, btw) and your description of how awesome the universe is (compared to the rather pedestrian version we get taught in Bible class, I might add) reminded me of this little gem which I’m always happy to be reminded of:

Your family (both the one you came from and the one you got divorced from) sounds like quite a mouthful. Sorry to hear your kids are now the ones suffering for it because they can’t see their dad. To be fair, your ex-wife had quite a bit to deal with herself, although it doesn’t seem she did it well.


#15

Wow, awkward. I’m in the minority. Anywho I feel there has to be a creator to have the Big Bang. I feel that the results of scientific research is because a creator made the universe. And science is the analysis of this. And to take the Bible literally is like being a rules lawyer for dungeons and dragons.

Nerd pride!


#16

I love python.

#montypythonholygrail


#17

Heh. I don’t know, there are a lot of people of faith in this forum.


#18

Did not know that


#19

Maybe we’re both over-estimating our respective others, so I’m certainly not prepared to weigh numbers. But religion did come up in other topics.


#20

I get that. Atheist ADHDer gives me a knee jerk reaction.

This week I heard a special education teacher complain about her kiddos with ADHD. I took it personally, but didn’t react.

So yea, labels bad.